Since everyone else is doing it...
Apr. 25th, 2003 02:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
brigdhAngst. It's a popular topic lately. ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
mpoetess talks about it, stakebait defends it, and it's popping up in other places, but I'm too lazy to go get the links.
Personally, I like angst. It's what I tend to write and read. That doesn't mean I don't like fluffy stories, I have a huge soft spot for stories that made me feel warm and cuddly and where everything goes right and everyone's happy. I like angst- well-written angst, not angst for the sake of angst, where characters are twisted out of recognition and the plot makes no sense- because it can be powerful, it can make you sad. And isn't it great that a story, some words about things that never actually happened and people who don't exist, can make you feel something? So for me, even when I'm feeling sad over a story, there's always an undercurrent of joy for experiencing it, of wonder about how the author managed to create it.
I'll read the darkest, wrongest things. Character death? No problem. Hell, I even write a character death in my next fic. I think part of it is the way I look at fanfic. I see it as fundamentally different from canon or original fic. In fanfic, ultimately, the characters are never affected. They are in that story, but there's still every other story out there, there's still the "real" character, the one who lives in the source and in our heads. And a story can't change that.
Hmm, I don't think I'm explaining this well. Take Angel and Wes, for example. How many first time stories are there about that pairing? A hundred? A thousand? And then there's all the stories that people never finished, or never bothered to write down, or that never became anything more than a half-formed daydream. Every single one a different situation, different dialogue, different emotions. And every single one of these stories is equal. Not in quality or writing, but in its importance to the characters. A million different Angels and a million different Wesleys, and none more important than the others. So if one of them dies, or if a few of the stories end badly, what does it matter? There's still 999,999,995 of them left. And killing off your version of Angel doesn't do a thing to the version of him that lives in my head.
I'm a big sappy romantic who really only wants to see everyone end up with their twu wuv, and in my head, in my daydreams, they always do. My muses spend all their time boffing like bunnies and snuggling in front of the fireplace. No story, even if it's one written by me, is going to change that. Because if I kill Buffy off in one story, that doesn't mean I can never write with her again.
To me, angst reinforces the happy muses. Reading an angst story is like being Dorian Grey (no, seriously, let me explain). You get to see the picture of yourself going all old and wrinkly, but you stay fine. I read the angst story and think "Wow, that would have been really bad." And then I go back to my muses, and they're all the happier because they know how it awful could have been. Seeing the elderly portrait makes them feel so much younger and healthier and prettier. So the more sad things I read, the more they have to appreciate about their "real" life.
And this was how I felt about angst for years. Never read a story that was too angsty, because it would always just end up making me happier. Until about a week ago, and I'm not going to say what story it was, because it's not her fault that she wrote something that squicked the hell out of me. I've been thinking about it, wondering why it bothered me so much. How can I complain that someone was angsty while I'm in the middle of writing character death? But I think I've figured it out.
In most angst fics, something goes wrong- someone dies, the couple breaks up, a bad decision is made- or there's regret that things aren't another way- if only he loved me back, if only he wasn't a vampire, if only she wasn't the slayer, if only I hadn't said that. And that's where my muses live, in the "if only", in the place where everything went right. But in this fic, that place didn't exist. Everything was fine and happy, they did love each other, and it still all went to hell. They were still shattered to pieces. And that's why I couldn't take it. She went where I lived, where everything was good, and twisted it all up. And not in the good way, not in the "Wow, that story actually made me cry!" way, but in the "Fuck off, you just perverted everything I believe in" way. Which possibly is me taking a fic a little too seriously, but at least I understand why now.
And this is incredibly random and tangential, but it's my two (more like ten) cents.
mpoetess talks about it, stakebait defends it, and it's popping up in other places, but I'm too lazy to go get the links.Personally, I like angst. It's what I tend to write and read. That doesn't mean I don't like fluffy stories, I have a huge soft spot for stories that made me feel warm and cuddly and where everything goes right and everyone's happy. I like angst- well-written angst, not angst for the sake of angst, where characters are twisted out of recognition and the plot makes no sense- because it can be powerful, it can make you sad. And isn't it great that a story, some words about things that never actually happened and people who don't exist, can make you feel something? So for me, even when I'm feeling sad over a story, there's always an undercurrent of joy for experiencing it, of wonder about how the author managed to create it.
I'll read the darkest, wrongest things. Character death? No problem. Hell, I even write a character death in my next fic. I think part of it is the way I look at fanfic. I see it as fundamentally different from canon or original fic. In fanfic, ultimately, the characters are never affected. They are in that story, but there's still every other story out there, there's still the "real" character, the one who lives in the source and in our heads. And a story can't change that.
Hmm, I don't think I'm explaining this well. Take Angel and Wes, for example. How many first time stories are there about that pairing? A hundred? A thousand? And then there's all the stories that people never finished, or never bothered to write down, or that never became anything more than a half-formed daydream. Every single one a different situation, different dialogue, different emotions. And every single one of these stories is equal. Not in quality or writing, but in its importance to the characters. A million different Angels and a million different Wesleys, and none more important than the others. So if one of them dies, or if a few of the stories end badly, what does it matter? There's still 999,999,995 of them left. And killing off your version of Angel doesn't do a thing to the version of him that lives in my head.
I'm a big sappy romantic who really only wants to see everyone end up with their twu wuv, and in my head, in my daydreams, they always do. My muses spend all their time boffing like bunnies and snuggling in front of the fireplace. No story, even if it's one written by me, is going to change that. Because if I kill Buffy off in one story, that doesn't mean I can never write with her again.
To me, angst reinforces the happy muses. Reading an angst story is like being Dorian Grey (no, seriously, let me explain). You get to see the picture of yourself going all old and wrinkly, but you stay fine. I read the angst story and think "Wow, that would have been really bad." And then I go back to my muses, and they're all the happier because they know how it awful could have been. Seeing the elderly portrait makes them feel so much younger and healthier and prettier. So the more sad things I read, the more they have to appreciate about their "real" life.
And this was how I felt about angst for years. Never read a story that was too angsty, because it would always just end up making me happier. Until about a week ago, and I'm not going to say what story it was, because it's not her fault that she wrote something that squicked the hell out of me. I've been thinking about it, wondering why it bothered me so much. How can I complain that someone was angsty while I'm in the middle of writing character death? But I think I've figured it out.
In most angst fics, something goes wrong- someone dies, the couple breaks up, a bad decision is made- or there's regret that things aren't another way- if only he loved me back, if only he wasn't a vampire, if only she wasn't the slayer, if only I hadn't said that. And that's where my muses live, in the "if only", in the place where everything went right. But in this fic, that place didn't exist. Everything was fine and happy, they did love each other, and it still all went to hell. They were still shattered to pieces. And that's why I couldn't take it. She went where I lived, where everything was good, and twisted it all up. And not in the good way, not in the "Wow, that story actually made me cry!" way, but in the "Fuck off, you just perverted everything I believe in" way. Which possibly is me taking a fic a little too seriously, but at least I understand why now.
And this is incredibly random and tangential, but it's my two (more like ten) cents.
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no subject
Date: 2003-04-25 01:08 pm (UTC)In general, for me, it's mostly whether the angst is done well or badly rather than how much of it there is. If it's bad, it's usually overdone anyway. "I love so-and-so and I don't know how so-and-so feels about me! All I can do is lie around in bed and sob and wish I were dead!" And there's a point at which things become hard to believe even if the characters' reactions aren't tremendously overblown -- I ran into that with one of my own story ideas once. I enjoy seeing the characters put through hell so that they can come out of it stronger and happy. I also like putting them through hell myself. Sometimes I also like a good darkfic that doesn't have a happy ending. But there are limits.
(In fact, that's actually one reason why I'm not really planning to write that story anymore. I never did make up my mind whether I felt that it was too much. I couldn't bear the thought of writing it and not fixing things at the end, but I wasn't sure if it was believable for there to be a fix at all, even the still rather dark ending that I had come up with.)
I've even had a similar experience with a story that was /so/ angsty that it actually bothered me, although I think in that case it was more because it was unexpected -- there I was reading this fun story, and then suddenly, out of the blue, everything went completely to hell and people hated each other and... it was done really well and there was no way for me to fix it in my head at all. I couldn't even imagine, after having read the awful way it ended, how things could have worked out happily instead, because anything I thought of felt contrived. She did such a good job of convincing me that the ending where everyone was miserable was the real one, and it really bothered me for days, even though it wasn't even set in the canon universe and the canon universe ends even /more/ angstily, really.
...it was a damned good story, granted. I just couldn't deal with it.
But, anyway. So very much on the same page.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-26 02:26 pm (UTC)And part of me feels stupid for complaining, because I write angst too. So it seems hypocritical of me to say she went over the line, when I do un-nice things to the characters too. But I think the reason why my own stories and most angst doesn't bother me is that there's always some hope, some chance, or the thought that things went wrong and they could have been different. But in this story, the couple never had a chance. They could *never* be happy. And that was just too much for me.
Glad you feel the same way, though. Really good that other people go through the same things. :)
no subject
Date: 2003-04-27 01:43 pm (UTC)Me? I suck at angst. X_x;; I would probably fall into 'too-cliche' angst category if I even attempt to write it. I put it as maybe a 'side-dish' in my stories, but most of the time, I write sap.
And yes, some people make their stories a bit too angst. That's why I had a problem watching Weiss Kreuz. >.>
Me, I prefer stories that have conflict, but they still manage to pull through in the end. There are times where I would love reading just a pure angst fic or a dark fic, but I have this conception of 'love conquers all' in the end.
Only time I write dark fics is when I'm in a REALLY pissed-off mood. It happens sometimes, and when I read it over, I'm like... 'I wrote THAT!?'
*Hides* Hope you're not talking about my dark fanfic either. *Didn't want to corrupt people's ideas of characters, just wanted to write something out of the ordinary*
Eh, excuse my random babbling. *Goes back to her hole*
no subject
Date: 2003-04-28 04:42 pm (UTC)Yep, I totally agree. Angst is far too easy to mess up. One only has to check out ff.net for plenty of examples of melodramatic, over-the-top, badly-written examples. And character death is used as a shortcut, I feel, for real emotion. Kill off someone and you have an excuse to write all the other characters as weepy and emotional as you want to. It can be done well, at least I hope so, since I'm trying to do it myself. ^^; But it takes effort. A death isn't going to change the way the still-alive characters behave. I mean, it'd take a lot to get Tatsumi to weep and tear his hair out, or scream in grief, no matter how sure the writer is that he's got a sensitive soul hidden somewhere deep inside. ;)
Me, I prefer stories that have conflict, but they still manage to pull through in the end. There are times where I would love reading just a pure angst fic or a dark fic, but I have this conception of 'love conquers all' in the end.
Yes. I like stories that can have a bit of fluff and a bit of angst, too. It's more true to real life. No one is happy or sad ALL the time. And plus, it balances out nicely that way. Of course, sometimes you just want to read something super-happy, or horribly depressing, if you know what I mean. So there's a place for everything.