Hey, it's a topic I haven't complained about in, like, several months

[brigdh]

Today I was standing in the faunal lab when a friend passed me, coming in to class. He turned immediately- still wearing his coat, his bag still in hand- and said, in a shocked voice, "Have you lost weight?"

"No," I tried to explain. "It's just this shirt, you know. It makes it look like I have-"

"Do you eat? You need to eat!"

"I eat!"

"You need to eat more!"

(I think this guy likes to analyze my clothes. Last week he complimented me on the sweater I was wearing: "I really like it! It's so green!" "Thank you," I said. "Especially the gradation," he continued, it being a sweater that's light green at the top and dark green on the bottom. "Uh, thank you," I said again. "It's done so well," he added. "I will, um, pass that on the dyers," I said, laughing. "Really?! Do you know them?" he said, and I had to explain that I was kidding, I'd bought it in a mall.)

And then, three hours later, I discovered that my newest pair of jeans, bought specifically to avoid this problem, fall off of my hips when I walk up stairs. Ahahahahaha, oh god I wonder if it's possible to die of malnutrition without meaning to.

Comments

[weirdquark]

Ahahahahaha, oh god I wonder if it's possible to die of malnutrition without meaning to.

Yes. If you aren't paying attention, it probably is.

One of my housemates got anorexic-getting-fuzz-on-her arms skinny one year because between grad school and working she wasn't eating enough. She'd grab a yogurt drink and a power bar and that would be it for the day. We finally managed to get her to agree with us that this wasn't enough and that this was a problem, and made her eat more food. The problem was that after not eating enough for a long time, you stop being hungry, which just makes things worse. She's still at the lower limit for a good weight for her height, but we aren't worried that she's going to fall over anymore.

So if you aren't eating enough, eat more! (My friend didn't have time for full meals everyday, so we told her to bring lots of snacks. No, LOTS of snacks. Healthy ones.)

I'm probably not eating enough these days myself, but I'd have to lose at least twenty pounds before I got near a weight that was too little for my build, and another twenty before I got under the lower limit for healthy weight for my height, so I'm not too worried about growing anorexia arm fuzz yet. Not that you can't die of malnutrition while being overweight. Where did I put those vitamins?

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

Ah. Well, that's not reassuring. Though I'm certainly eating more than yogurt and a power bar, and don't have any health issues (...that I've noticed, I suppose. I don't feel any physically less fit than I ever have, but I don't go to a gym or lift weights or something like that where I might be more likely to pick up on changes, and it's hard to evaluate changes in immune system, sleeping patterns, mental quickness, etc).

That's a scary story. I suppose I should start buying more snack foods!

What is anorexia arm fuzz? I've never known anyone personally with a severe eating disorder.

[weirdquark]

When your body doesn't have enough fat to keep you warm, your body hair gets thicker in an attempt to compensate. So people with anorexia often have fuzzy arms.

Like p_zeitgeist said, you didn't look dangerously thin (in the pictures you've posted) and if you have enough energy to get through the day, you should be okay. (My friend was also tired a lot, but since she was getting up really early and running around all day, thought this was reasonable) If you're eating two full meals a day, you're probably fine, but if you're still losing weight due to running around a lot, snacks can't hurt.

And like I said, I'm not eating well myself -- I don't usually manage two full meals a day most days, so you're doing better than I am.

I need to eat more too! And get more exercise! I can't walk to work anymore. It makes me sad.

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see. That makes sense.

Hee. I walk a lot (actually apparently I walk 4 miles a day! I had no idea, but I was just playing with Google maps to get an estimate, and from my apartment to my university's campus is 1.9 miles one way by their route, and I go there every day. And throw in various detours to stores or restaurants or banks wherever else I happen to need to go, and I'm probably averaging higher than that). Wow, no wonder that's had an effect.

Walking is fun! And snacks are yummy. So there's not really any bad here.

[childofatlantis.livejournal.com]

... which is weird, because another thing that can cause thicker body hair is Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, where a characteristic is being overweight, and therefore the solution to is to lose weight.... bodies are strange. ^_^

[p-zeitgeist.livejournal.com]

Ah, well. I sort of hate to mention it, but I have noticed that you are perfectly capable of forgetting to eat.

I personally find this soothing, since I don't always want to be looking for food either. But still. It does leave me suspecting that if anyone could die of malnutrition without meaning to, it would be you. And it would probably happen because you were more interested in everything else than in whether it was time for dinner.

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

True, I do. I've always been sort of surprised that other people don't, actually. But it usually involves pushing meals until after I'm done with whatever I'm doing, not simply not eating! I always have at least two meals a day- full meals, not toast and a banana, which is why I don't feel bad about not bothering with breakfast, because I'm getting as many calories as someone who eats it- even if one of them ends up being in the middle of the night.

But, regardless, clearly it is a more serious problem than how I'd been thinking of it. weirdquark is right, I should probably start buying lots of snacks to bring places with me.

[p-zeitgeist.livejournal.com]

. . . and now that you're all spooked, I'm going to come back too late to add that at least as of a couple of weeks ago you did not look unhealthily thin. Thin, to be sure, but not in the kind of way that would set any alarm bells ringing in my head. It was more a matter of, "Wow, no wonder she looks so good. Maybe I should try that."

But if you're still losing weight, making an effort to take in a few more calories for a while can't hurt. After all, it's winter: you burn more energy in the cold. And that thing where you keep wearing holes in your shoes? That's a good indication of a high level of physical activity, suggesting that you may also just plain need more fuel than you're used to needing.

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

That's helpful to know. And this is the part where I have to say- Surely you're kidding? You look fine! Why would you need to try anything different?- but I really mean it.

And I have no aversion to eating more. I'm a fan of food. I'll just need to make the effort to do so.

[p-zeitgeist.livejournal.com]

Well, maybe. But you look better.

It's an insanity thing. I happen to know, as a matter of incontrovertible scientific fact, that my two pounds of excess weight are the most repulsive two pounds of any substance in the entire known universe. My body is supposed to be skin stretched smoothly over muscle and bone! What's that -- that goopy stuff over my hips? That does not belong there! It squishes! That can't be right. Why isn't there something in the warranty about this?

Feel free to point and laugh; that's what everybody else does.

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm, um, trying not to laugh. Surely that counts as sympathy.

But really, the entire universe? What about, say, dead toads! Or fruit that's gone bad to the point where when you touch it, your fingers burst right through the skin! Or the violently-colored substance that occasionally appears on sidewalks which is probably vomit but you don't look at too closely because then you can still pretend someone just spilled orange coleslaw!

I suppose it's reassuring to see how everyone is insane over one body issue or another. If anyone managed to free up all that extra emotional energy, they'd probably be able to take over the planet by the end of the week.

And now, just to really confuse the issue . . .

[p-zeitgeist.livejournal.com]

If I hadn't been crashing by the time I made that last comment last night, I like to think I would have remembered that there's a good counterargument to this whole "You need to eat more!" thing.

And that is that there's some reason to think that healthy calorie restriction -- which is to say, a diet where you're getting all the nutrients you need, but you're eating perhaps 30% fewer calories every day than what we'd normally expect for your activity level -- can significantly improve health and extend lifespan over the long haul. We know it works in mice; we don't know about people mostly because very few human beings can keep their food intake that low for long enough to allow anyone to look at the effects.

But in mice, it's well established that eating the way you appear to eat anyway results in a lifespan that's a third longer than mice who eat at the usual levels, that they retain the energy and vitality of youth for much longer, and that the onset of ordinary diseases of ageing is much later.

So not only is it entirely possible that what you're doing is fine, it's possible that it's healthier than what any of the rest of us are doing.

Just when you thought you had a plan, huh? Sorry about that.

Re: And now, just to really confuse the issue . . .

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

Ha! That seems entirely illogical- surely getting less than what you need can't be healthy?- and yet probably makes a lot of sense. How often would wild animals, or pre-Modern period humans, actually meet all of their caloric needs? I suppose one would expect to find that bodies are best adapted to less than optimal conditions.

Now I should just claim that I was already aware of this, and had been matching my diet to it all along.

Re: And now, just to really confuse the issue . . .

[p-zeitgeist.livejournal.com]

I haven't looked at the research in forever, so my knowledge is both vague from distance and not that of a professional. (I do see/hear references to the underlying work from respectable sources from time to time, so I do know it's still considered a solidly-established phenomenon, as far as it goes.)

My impression is that nobody has a really good idea of why and how it works. There's been speculation that it's a mechanism related to fertility and reproduction, so that in times of not-quite-famine-level scarcity the body is somehow able to reset its timetable a little, allowing for an extended youth/young adulthood in which reproduction would be possible. But that was merely speculation. The phenomenon was noticed a long time ago, before the age of molecular biology and identification of things like telomeres, and aging is too complex for medicine to really come to grips with even now, with the new tools.

But it has to be the case, as you say, that caloric needs are being met: otherwise you'd have starvation rather than a stable weight lower than the norm, with as-good-as-normal levels of activity and general enthusiasm for life, and no observable cognitive/behavioral disturbances. So it must be the case that a body on this kind of regimen is adjusting somehow. And under laboratory conditions, it's a fair bet that somebody's making sure those mice are getting enough protein and vitamins and various micronutrients, regardless of how many calories they're taking in.

All of which is to say, I'd still be careful about getting enough protein if I were going to go for it.

[childofatlantis.livejournal.com]

I remember once hearing about someone who DID accidentally die of malnutrition - he lived alone and far out of town, got totally caught up in writing (I think), by the time he realised he had no food in the house he already couldn't go anywhere.`But I can't remember who it was, except I think it was a writer.

... so, er, keep your cell phone charged? ^_^

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

That's kinda scary! I don't think it's likely to happen to me, but I will certainly keep the possibility in mind.

[vom-marlowe.livejournal.com]

I lost my appetite last year. My doc said sometimes that just happens. Anyway, she told me to make sure I ate at least two balanced meals a day. The fewer the calories, she said, the more important it is that they be good ones. Also, a good vitamin is kinda like insurance; she had me track my major nutrients to make sure I was getting enough. Depending on the kind of snacks you prefer, I highly recommend the Ziplock twist top containers--I can pack soup, juice, smoothies, etc, and they never spill all over my laptop. Nuts and dried fruit are a great high calorie snack that is pretty healthy and easy to stash in handy places. A friend of mine has been teaching me the fine art of creating a food hoard, so that I have easy access to healthy snacks and meals if I do end up hungry; frozen meals stashed at work, those little soup cups, applesauce packets, etc. This keeps me from hitting the vending machine or other less nutritious choices.

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you. That's very helpful. Being able to take things places would be tremendously useful to me, as part of my problem is that I focus on one thing at a time, and so don't want to break my concentration to go cook or get food. But if I could just pull something out of my bag and snack on it without much effort, I'd be much more likely to eat more often.

[vom-marlowe.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. :) I find that having different tastes and textures, like sweet and salty, crunchy and soft, also helps. I try to get something a little luxurious or decadent, like dried cherries and pecans, and the prettiness factor can pull me away from whatever I'm currently grooving on, when hunger won't. Can you stash peanut butter and a box of whole wheat crackers someplace? Are there healthy takeout options on your way to someplace?

And I'm not sure if this is a useful tip or a dire warning, but at one point when I was losing weight too quickly, I developed a multi-mocha a day habit. I can always find room for mochas, and I love cafes, such good places to write, etc. My jeans are much tighter now.

Here's another something to consider--my friend (the food stash instigator) has me on this scheduled eating plan. I'm to eat at regular times, hungry or not, small amounts are fine. I discovered that this has really helped my moodiness, concentration, and sleeping. I hadn't realized those were whacked. The other thing it helped with is the cold--I get cold a lot easier these days, and apparently a full stomach is helpful. YMMV and all that.

[shes-unreal.livejournal.com]

I all but stopped eating when I first had a bout of depression and did that whole enforced meal plan thing when I'd been on medication for a while and wanted to lose weight... because I don't lose any when I'm starving, go figure. I'd even set my alarm clock to go off at night so I'd remember to eat dinner. At first it was kind of difficult because I really didn't want to do it, but I ended up feeling more energetic and losing about 25 pounds so it's obviously a good thing.

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

All good tips, thank you! (Though I prefer hot chocolate to mochas, but I am sure they are equally fattening.)

Of course, my other problem is being able to afford things. I don't mind going out to resturants when I'm with other people, but when I'm eating by myself I'd rather go for cheaper grocery store food. Which usually takes more effort to cook it, but doesn't cause me to worry as much that I will end up with no money and deeply in debt.

[childofatlantis.livejournal.com]

I don't suppose you want to share this fine art, do you? I could do with a food hoard, although for rather different reasons. ^_^

[shes-unreal.livejournal.com]

I never thought you looked unhealthily thin, but I haven't seen any recent photos since I haven't been looking at your picture posts. If you're concerned, you should maybe take a day or a couple of days to write down what you eat (assuming they're normal days and you're not going out to celebrate or getting cake from someone or something), figure out how many calories that is, and then figure out your baseline caloric intake to maintain your weight. I don't know, it's some kind of equation based on your weight, you could probably google it and figure out what it is.

But I figure if you're not feeling tired or weak or experiencing unintentional weight loss you're probably all right.

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

Well, I've only posted one photo of myself recently, so it's not like you'd have a wide range of looks at me. I probably should try the calorie thing; it couldn't hurt, at least.

I don't know if I'm actually losing weight, since I don't have a scale; the only way I can judge is by how well my clothes are currently fitting, and that can have as much to do with how long it's been since I've done laundry as anything else.

[parallactic.livejournal.com]

As other commenters have said, it is possible to suffer from malnutrition without meaning to. It's even possible to be malnourished while overeating, but that's an entirely different subject.

I've had problems in the past where I'd skip meals, or eat poorly, because I didn't feel like eating. (Dude, watching the effort and preparation on cooking shows will turn me off from wanting to eat whatever they're making.) Currently, my goal is to eat regularly and well, even when I don't feel like it.

I'd go with the advice on bringing snacks: packs of tiny carrots you can buy at the store, crackers, energy/cereal bars, healthy cereal packed into baggies, dried fruit, nuts, easy fruit like apples and bananas, etc. I'm 90% vegetarian, but I suppose there's meat-based snack options out there as well, like jerky.

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

I completely sympathize with sometimes not wanting to make the effort to cook. I find that I can always make pasta, at least, even if I do it by putting water on to boil and then wandering away to something more interesting for long enough for most of the water to evaporate, coming back and refilling the pot, and repeating the process until I actually manage to cook some noodles.

I eat mostly vegetarian, too. For a long time I was strict about it and didn't eat any meat, but in the last few years I've stopped caring as much. I still don't cook it, though; meat seems so easy to mess up and accidentally give yourself salmonella or something. Vegetables are simpler, in that sense. Also, raw meat bleeds on you, and I find that to be pretty much the most unappetizing thing ever.

[parallactic.livejournal.com]

My cooking technique is to throw in a whole bunch of food items into one big pot/pan, and add sauce or seasoning. I try to make the food items balance each other out nutritionally. This is a vast improvement over my attempts to live on healthy cereal.

Word, on being wary about cooking meat; there's also more unpalatable stuff in the meal like bones and gristle. I thought I'd given up being vegetarian, but those habits have become ingrained.

[wordsofastory.livejournal.com]

They really do. When I eat meat, I find it has to be very high-quality; if I come on a string of fat, or something that's chewy when it shouldn't be, it puts me off the whole meal entirely.